Time & History - by Arislyn on 10:48 05 Aug 2002
The nature of time is another subject which has been the central point of many science fiction novels and films. How do you think time works? Is it plausible for the Enterprise to be able to slingshot around the sun and into a different time? Could black holes be a passage not only through space, but time? Could you actually go back and change history or does time account for that so that nothing changes no matter what you do? And, as an aside, if you /could/ go back and change something, what would it be?
The nature of time is another subject which has been the central point of many science fiction novels and films. How do you think time works? Is it plausible for the Enterprise to be able to slingshot around the sun and into a different time? Could black holes be a passage not only through space, but time? Could you actually go back and change history or does time account for that so that nothing changes no matter what you do? And, as an aside, if you /could/ go back and change something, what would it be?
Time & History - by din on 07:32 13 Aug 2002
I have two different things that deal with time, not science fiction things though /thinks/ .
First a cthulhu game, where i've been proposing that time is backwards. The future is immutable and only the past can be changed. This is a very illogical and difficult row to plow, but it is the last vestige of the 'unexplainable' and helps make the mythos universe i'm playing out of a lot more alien.
Second is i like to use a 'timeless' nature with beings such as elementals. that time, or the flow of events do not look that way to them. It leads to interesting tidbits like a fire air elemental talking about a meeting that hasn't happened yet, etc.
I have two different things that deal with time, not science fiction things though /thinks/ .
First a cthulhu game, where i've been proposing that time is backwards. The future is immutable and only the past can be changed. This is a very illogical and difficult row to plow, but it is the last vestige of the 'unexplainable' and helps make the mythos universe i'm playing out of a lot more alien.
Second is i like to use a 'timeless' nature with beings such as elementals. that time, or the flow of events do not look that way to them. It leads to interesting tidbits like a fire air elemental talking about a meeting that hasn't happened yet, etc.
Time & History - by Arislyn on 08:35 13 Aug 2002
Neat! I'd be interested in hearing what sort of goings-on are happening in that Cthulhu game. As you said, I imagine that to be a hard one to pull off.
I've been messing with time in my Lapis thread. I'm doing much the same as your timeless game except that in my world, time is like a river. It flows differently at different points within the stream, though it is all moving in the same direction. So, time may move more slowly on one plane than another. I feel like it gives Planeswalkers a sort of timelessness since they would age according to where they are in the flow of time.
Neat! I'd be interested in hearing what sort of goings-on are happening in that Cthulhu game. As you said, I imagine that to be a hard one to pull off.
I've been messing with time in my Lapis thread. I'm doing much the same as your timeless game except that in my world, time is like a river. It flows differently at different points within the stream, though it is all moving in the same direction. So, time may move more slowly on one plane than another. I feel like it gives Planeswalkers a sort of timelessness since they would age according to where they are in the flow of time.
Time & History - by Brad on 14:00 13 Aug 2002
I like that elemental concept din.
That is a bit like Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings (books). He was a nature spirit and not effected by time or Sauron's magic the way others might be.
Likewise the Istari (the wizards or the White Council: Gandalf, Saruman, Radgast are the only ones named) had taken human-like forms but were probably powerful spirits akin to demi-gods in the First Age. Time flowed differently for them too, i think.
Now, in D&D terms: if I do a spell Time Stop will it effect a wraith? I've played in a game where it did not. Likewise, borrowing from Tolkien, Time Stop would effect the physical body of an elf but an elf could still walk upon the etherial plane. It did not effect his spirit. (In that game.) So that ties in with what you are talking about Arislyn.
Of course the whole basis of warp speed in scifi space travel is about time and distance.
I like that elemental concept din.
That is a bit like Tom Bombadil in Lord of the Rings (books). He was a nature spirit and not effected by time or Sauron's magic the way others might be.
Likewise the Istari (the wizards or the White Council: Gandalf, Saruman, Radgast are the only ones named) had taken human-like forms but were probably powerful spirits akin to demi-gods in the First Age. Time flowed differently for them too, i think.
Now, in D&D terms: if I do a spell Time Stop will it effect a wraith? I've played in a game where it did not. Likewise, borrowing from Tolkien, Time Stop would effect the physical body of an elf but an elf could still walk upon the etherial plane. It did not effect his spirit. (In that game.) So that ties in with what you are talking about Arislyn.
Of course the whole basis of warp speed in scifi space travel is about time and distance.
Time & History - by Arislyn on 12:04 15 Aug 2002
So, yet again I was thinking about this whole time thing and I think that I like the idea that you can't actually alter time. No matter what you do in the past, the future will still be as it is, because you were supposed to do whatever it was you did.
Of course, that brings up the "But what if I killed Important Person X before he could do Important Thing Y? Wouldn't that change history, and thus, the future?" Well, sure it could! But, I like the idea that you can only attempt to change the future. The force of time itself would work against you in a cosmic sense, making it so that even if you did kill Important Person X, Important Thing Y would still happen because he managed to hand off info or whatever to Previously Unknown Important Person Z, who would then do the exact same thing the first person would've done had he lived. *grins* So, all that has really changed is a name, not the actual event itself.
So, yet again I was thinking about this whole time thing and I think that I like the idea that you can't actually alter time. No matter what you do in the past, the future will still be as it is, because you were supposed to do whatever it was you did.
Of course, that brings up the "But what if I killed Important Person X before he could do Important Thing Y? Wouldn't that change history, and thus, the future?" Well, sure it could! But, I like the idea that you can only attempt to change the future. The force of time itself would work against you in a cosmic sense, making it so that even if you did kill Important Person X, Important Thing Y would still happen because he managed to hand off info or whatever to Previously Unknown Important Person Z, who would then do the exact same thing the first person would've done had he lived. *grins* So, all that has really changed is a name, not the actual event itself.
Time & History - by Brad on 12:16 15 Aug 2002
Arislyn,
Hmm, sounds like predestination to me. Like we cannot effect our own destinies.
Arislyn,
Hmm, sounds like predestination to me. Like we cannot effect our own destinies.
Time & History - by Arislyn on 12:57 15 Aug 2002
Hmmm...
True enough, that. *grins and shrugs* But, it certainly makes things nice and tidy, doesn't it? Not full of potential paradoxes and chaos like some of the other theories out there.
But, you know, predestination on this level doesn't necessarily negate free will. If all anyone ever knows is the present and is completely unable to affect the past, then he will make the best choice he can to affect the future. It may be that, on the cosmic level, he was meant to do whatever it is he has done, but he was given the choice of either doing or not doing. He could sit and think through the choices and come to a conclusion without being influenced one way or the other in any direct way. However, that brings up the whole "But did he /really/ have a choice if the cosmos was working against him" thing. It's just the illusion of free will.
Maybe each choice that we make in time actually generates a new reality on some level, where possibilities branch off. So, we'd have a kind of "Sliders-esque" thing going on.
Hmmm...
True enough, that. *grins and shrugs* But, it certainly makes things nice and tidy, doesn't it? Not full of potential paradoxes and chaos like some of the other theories out there.
But, you know, predestination on this level doesn't necessarily negate free will. If all anyone ever knows is the present and is completely unable to affect the past, then he will make the best choice he can to affect the future. It may be that, on the cosmic level, he was meant to do whatever it is he has done, but he was given the choice of either doing or not doing. He could sit and think through the choices and come to a conclusion without being influenced one way or the other in any direct way. However, that brings up the whole "But did he /really/ have a choice if the cosmos was working against him" thing. It's just the illusion of free will.
Maybe each choice that we make in time actually generates a new reality on some level, where possibilities branch off. So, we'd have a kind of "Sliders-esque" thing going on.
Time & History - by Haruchai on 00:41 17 Aug 2002
Time.
Hmmm..... I've pondered on this question for a bit, not wanting to just jump right in. Everyone here has brought up valid and interesting arguments and, well, I think I agree with them all.
I don't think that humans, no matter how technologically advanced we become, will ever truly be able to "conquer" time. I think, in time (no pun intended), that we may be able to shift time slightly, but we will never truly master it... I think it would be like trying to get the Earth to rotate opposite on its axis, or to reverse its orbit. Sure, it would be nice to be able to slip through time, or to circumvent it... but at what cost? Who knows what harm could be done?
This kind of reminds me (tangent alert!), of a conversation I had with a friend that was spawned by teh video game "Metal Gear: Solid". During the course of the game, it is brought up by a supporting character that, given enough time, humans will be able to capture anything digitally. Namely, human emotions and memories. This is refuted by the main character. Which, by the way, I happen to agree with. Now, where was I?
Oh yes.... time. If I could change some things, in the past, I don't think they could be named here. Sorry.
Here's another thought, having to deal with time a bit, and memory as well. I got this from another board I peek in on.
Let's say a teacher, a man, doesn't matter who, is by himself in a room. He writes the number "42" upon the blackboard. He immediately erases it, and the suddenly falls prey to a heart attack, from which he dies. He is found a few hours later, and of course the room is thoroughly searched. Now, here's the question: did the number "42" written on the blackboard ever exist? The only person who ever witnessed it is dead, and to everyone else in the world, it never existed.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Ok, I'm just rambling now.... *quietly goes insane and drools*
Haru
Time.
Hmmm..... I've pondered on this question for a bit, not wanting to just jump right in. Everyone here has brought up valid and interesting arguments and, well, I think I agree with them all.
I don't think that humans, no matter how technologically advanced we become, will ever truly be able to "conquer" time. I think, in time (no pun intended), that we may be able to shift time slightly, but we will never truly master it... I think it would be like trying to get the Earth to rotate opposite on its axis, or to reverse its orbit. Sure, it would be nice to be able to slip through time, or to circumvent it... but at what cost? Who knows what harm could be done?
This kind of reminds me (tangent alert!), of a conversation I had with a friend that was spawned by teh video game "Metal Gear: Solid". During the course of the game, it is brought up by a supporting character that, given enough time, humans will be able to capture anything digitally. Namely, human emotions and memories. This is refuted by the main character. Which, by the way, I happen to agree with. Now, where was I?
Oh yes.... time. If I could change some things, in the past, I don't think they could be named here. Sorry.
Here's another thought, having to deal with time a bit, and memory as well. I got this from another board I peek in on.
Let's say a teacher, a man, doesn't matter who, is by himself in a room. He writes the number "42" upon the blackboard. He immediately erases it, and the suddenly falls prey to a heart attack, from which he dies. He is found a few hours later, and of course the room is thoroughly searched. Now, here's the question: did the number "42" written on the blackboard ever exist? The only person who ever witnessed it is dead, and to everyone else in the world, it never existed.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Ok, I'm just rambling now.... *quietly goes insane and drools*
Haru
Time & History - by Arislyn on 11:44 17 Aug 2002
*grins* Okay, let me clarify. I realize that I wasn't entirely clear on my question: What would you change in history, if you could. Technically, yes, anything that is past this moment in time is history, but I'm not looking at that. I'm also not looking into personal envents. I'm talking about stuff like Lincoln's assassination, changing the course of battles, etc.
Personally, (and I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack over this) I'd go back and find the first critter that had the potential of evolving into mankind and squish it. Yep. That's right. I'd kill the whole, darned race. I'm not exactly pleased with mankind as a whole and feel that the cosmos would be better off without us. Granted, removing us would simply leave an opening for something else to evolve and fill our spot in the cosmic niche...something that could be better or could be worse. Who knows? However, we'd be getting rid of the devil we know. (And, yes, I realize that would mean I would go "poof!" too.)
*grins* Okay, let me clarify. I realize that I wasn't entirely clear on my question: What would you change in history, if you could. Technically, yes, anything that is past this moment in time is history, but I'm not looking at that. I'm also not looking into personal envents. I'm talking about stuff like Lincoln's assassination, changing the course of battles, etc.
Personally, (and I know I'm going to catch a lot of flack over this) I'd go back and find the first critter that had the potential of evolving into mankind and squish it. Yep. That's right. I'd kill the whole, darned race. I'm not exactly pleased with mankind as a whole and feel that the cosmos would be better off without us. Granted, removing us would simply leave an opening for something else to evolve and fill our spot in the cosmic niche...something that could be better or could be worse. Who knows? However, we'd be getting rid of the devil we know. (And, yes, I realize that would mean I would go "poof!" too.)
Time & History - by Haruchai on 15:52 17 Aug 2002
*chuckles* Oh.... *shrugs*
I actually don't think that smushing the race at the beginning would necessarily be all that bad. Humanity, as a whole, certainly isn't the best of races. But what if you went back, and found that, indeed, creationism was our cause? There was no little creature to squish, but a full grown man? Would you then commit murder?
Poses some interesting scenarios....
What if you went back in time... and got killed? Would you then cease to exist in the future? Can you be killed centuries or years before you were even concepted?
Haru
*chuckles* Oh.... *shrugs*
I actually don't think that smushing the race at the beginning would necessarily be all that bad. Humanity, as a whole, certainly isn't the best of races. But what if you went back, and found that, indeed, creationism was our cause? There was no little creature to squish, but a full grown man? Would you then commit murder?
Poses some interesting scenarios....
What if you went back in time... and got killed? Would you then cease to exist in the future? Can you be killed centuries or years before you were even concepted?
Haru
Time & History - by Brad on 17:39 17 Aug 2002
And what if it is the destiny of humans, in the future, to act as a counter force to a really-really bad alien race?
I mean humans are all we have! *kinda looks around, having momentarily confused even himself.*
We invented pizza! Hey that counts for something. And doggies -- there would be no nice doggies if Man had not domesticated them. The universe would also miss out on corderoy! Think about that! Squish one ambeoa and poof, there goes corderoy! That is pretty harsh IMO.
And what if it is the destiny of humans, in the future, to act as a counter force to a really-really bad alien race?
I mean humans are all we have! *kinda looks around, having momentarily confused even himself.*
We invented pizza! Hey that counts for something. And doggies -- there would be no nice doggies if Man had not domesticated them. The universe would also miss out on corderoy! Think about that! Squish one ambeoa and poof, there goes corderoy! That is pretty harsh IMO.
Time & History - by Arislyn on 18:34 17 Aug 2002
*laughs* I think you just made my point, Brad! Say goodbye to bad fashion sense! Courderoy....poof! Polyester...poof! Hot pants...poof!
Now, I'm going to give everyone here fair warning before I answer anymore. I'm going to be delving into some religious pondering and I'm sure that there are plenty of people out there who will not agree with me. Please, please, please, keep in mind that this is just a discussion and don't start flying all off the handle with "How dare you?" and "You're going to fry for eternity!" and get all up in arms about this. It's fine you don't agree with me. Heck, I encourage that sort of thing. What a horribly boring and pointless world it would be were we to all be mindless drones who agreed on every little point. I'm sure that most of you are mature enough to realize that this is just an exercise in philosophy, but I feel like I have to reiterate for those who may want to start a flame war: This is just a discussion. It's not an attack on anyone or their beliefs.
Now, let's get started, shall we?
<snip>
I actually don't think that smushing the race at the beginning would necessarily be all that bad. Humanity, as a whole, certainly isn't the best of races. But what if you went back, and found that, indeed, creationism was our cause? There was no little creature to squish, but a full grown man? Would you then commit murder?
</snip>
Would I commit murder, especially knowing that there is a God who may not be all that pleased with me if I do? Honestly, I don't think God would stop me from committing murder. We do it to ourselves everyday. The Eternal allows us to rape, murder, steal, etc. each and every day, committing atrocities against Mankind and Nature. We were given free-will, given the choice to do as we wish. We are capable of not doing these things all on our own, and therefore, the Divine does not interfere. How are we to grow as a race if we are forced to be good or evil, if we are never stretched to our limits? Thus, were I to actually figure out a way to go back in time and destroy what had been created, I think God would allow it as a manifestation of my free-will. I think the Divine would be disappointed, most certainly, that we had not developed to the point where we could live in harmony with ourselves and the rest of the cosmos and I would definitely be facing eternity in ####, but I do not think I would be stopped.
<snip>
And what if it is the destiny of humans, in the future, to act as a counter force to a really-really bad alien race?
</snip>
Well, if I did squish the human race and it turns out that we were destined to be the counter for a nasty, alien race then the rest of the galaxy may just be SOL. However, if we go back to my original theory that history can't really be changed at all, it would turn out that humans as we are now would've never existed, but another race would've risen in our place, filling the niche we would've had and countering the alien force.
*laughs* I think you just made my point, Brad! Say goodbye to bad fashion sense! Courderoy....poof! Polyester...poof! Hot pants...poof!
Now, I'm going to give everyone here fair warning before I answer anymore. I'm going to be delving into some religious pondering and I'm sure that there are plenty of people out there who will not agree with me. Please, please, please, keep in mind that this is just a discussion and don't start flying all off the handle with "How dare you?" and "You're going to fry for eternity!" and get all up in arms about this. It's fine you don't agree with me. Heck, I encourage that sort of thing. What a horribly boring and pointless world it would be were we to all be mindless drones who agreed on every little point. I'm sure that most of you are mature enough to realize that this is just an exercise in philosophy, but I feel like I have to reiterate for those who may want to start a flame war: This is just a discussion. It's not an attack on anyone or their beliefs.
Now, let's get started, shall we?
<snip>
I actually don't think that smushing the race at the beginning would necessarily be all that bad. Humanity, as a whole, certainly isn't the best of races. But what if you went back, and found that, indeed, creationism was our cause? There was no little creature to squish, but a full grown man? Would you then commit murder?
</snip>
Would I commit murder, especially knowing that there is a God who may not be all that pleased with me if I do? Honestly, I don't think God would stop me from committing murder. We do it to ourselves everyday. The Eternal allows us to rape, murder, steal, etc. each and every day, committing atrocities against Mankind and Nature. We were given free-will, given the choice to do as we wish. We are capable of not doing these things all on our own, and therefore, the Divine does not interfere. How are we to grow as a race if we are forced to be good or evil, if we are never stretched to our limits? Thus, were I to actually figure out a way to go back in time and destroy what had been created, I think God would allow it as a manifestation of my free-will. I think the Divine would be disappointed, most certainly, that we had not developed to the point where we could live in harmony with ourselves and the rest of the cosmos and I would definitely be facing eternity in ####, but I do not think I would be stopped.
<snip>
And what if it is the destiny of humans, in the future, to act as a counter force to a really-really bad alien race?
</snip>
Well, if I did squish the human race and it turns out that we were destined to be the counter for a nasty, alien race then the rest of the galaxy may just be SOL. However, if we go back to my original theory that history can't really be changed at all, it would turn out that humans as we are now would've never existed, but another race would've risen in our place, filling the niche we would've had and countering the alien force.
Time & History - by Brad on 20:10 17 Aug 2002
No Hot Pants? Cruel. Very cruel.
No Hot Pants? Cruel. Very cruel.
Time & History - by Haruchai on 01:06 18 Aug 2002
Yes, of course this is merely duscussion.
I have no qualms with anything you may choose to say, and I freely admit myself that I am agnostic. Still, religious discussion, philosophy, and other topics interest me greatly if they can be talked about on a mature level.
I wasn't asking if you thought the divine would stop you. I was simply asking if, instead of finding some creature to squish and you found a full-grown man, would you still be as steady in your process? I take it that your answer is yes. My thoughts then took me to the conclusion that, if you found a full-grown man, you may very well not be able to pull off your plan, and would yourself be slain. Thus, I asked what would then happen if you were slain. Would you not exist in the future? Would you come to be, and attempt the same thing again, thus getting caught in a cosmic cycle? Something to think about...
What?! No more courderoy or hot pants?! Nooooooooo!! My wardrobe! Gone in the blink of an eye! Curse you!!!
Anyways, I agree that Mankind is not the nicest of races. Still, with the question of Man as a counter to a nasty alien race, I have to bring up another question. What if there are no races out there other than Man? Not only would other races be SOL, since they wouldn't exist anyways, but now you've killed off the entirety of the only sentient species in the universe....
And what about this... If I stab myself, then go back in time, am I still wounded? If I exist in a time before I existed, can I even be hurt? or killed? Maybe you would be invulnerable... Cool!
Go Ari!! You not only achieved world domination, but a galaxial one as well! WhooHoo!!
Yes, of course this is merely duscussion.
I have no qualms with anything you may choose to say, and I freely admit myself that I am agnostic. Still, religious discussion, philosophy, and other topics interest me greatly if they can be talked about on a mature level. I wasn't asking if you thought the divine would stop you. I was simply asking if, instead of finding some creature to squish and you found a full-grown man, would you still be as steady in your process? I take it that your answer is yes. My thoughts then took me to the conclusion that, if you found a full-grown man, you may very well not be able to pull off your plan, and would yourself be slain. Thus, I asked what would then happen if you were slain. Would you not exist in the future? Would you come to be, and attempt the same thing again, thus getting caught in a cosmic cycle? Something to think about...
What?! No more courderoy or hot pants?! Nooooooooo!! My wardrobe! Gone in the blink of an eye! Curse you!!!
Anyways, I agree that Mankind is not the nicest of races. Still, with the question of Man as a counter to a nasty alien race, I have to bring up another question. What if there are no races out there other than Man? Not only would other races be SOL, since they wouldn't exist anyways, but now you've killed off the entirety of the only sentient species in the universe....
And what about this... If I stab myself, then go back in time, am I still wounded? If I exist in a time before I existed, can I even be hurt? or killed? Maybe you would be invulnerable... Cool!
Go Ari!! You not only achieved world domination, but a galaxial one as well! WhooHoo!!
Time & History - by Brad on 08:33 18 Aug 2002
But that is the trick: in comparison to what? It may well be that all the other senitient races in the universe are much worse than humans.
The thing that gives me hope is that while mankind is busy being bad, there are also a lot of people trying to make humankind better. That is a harder task to be sure, but they don't get the attention as they quietly go about their work.
I think watching the news makes it easy to dispair and want to squish. The ratings quest of the media means they focus on the bad, scary things because they get our attention. But that is not a balanced view. IMO.
| Quote |
| Anyways, I agree that Mankind is not the nicest of races. |
But that is the trick: in comparison to what? It may well be that all the other senitient races in the universe are much worse than humans.
The thing that gives me hope is that while mankind is busy being bad, there are also a lot of people trying to make humankind better. That is a harder task to be sure, but they don't get the attention as they quietly go about their work.
I think watching the news makes it easy to dispair and want to squish. The ratings quest of the media means they focus on the bad, scary things because they get our attention. But that is not a balanced view. IMO.
Time & History - by Arislyn on 10:08 18 Aug 2002
*grins* Oh, I knew that I didn't have to worry about you or Brad or any of the other regs/admins/mods here on the board, Haru. It's just that some people are so sensitive about religion that I feel like I have to drive home the point that it's just a discussion for those who lurk. They may never log in and write anything until they feel their viewpoint is being challenged and then come in swinging.
Ah, see, I figured it was implied that I would go through with it when I started talking about whether God would stop me. However, I can't honestly say whether I would or not. After all, killing a man is quite different from squishing an amoeba. Plus, poor Adam was an innocent bugger until he made the mistake of listening to Eve. One thing that I considered was finding Eve (if Adam existed, she had to too otherwise the rest of the race never would've followed) and taking her forward in time with me to show her what becomes of Mankind. However, by doing that, wouldn't I be doing exactly the same thing that eating the Apple of Knowledge did? Giving her knowledge of all the things God wanted to prevent? And would she not share this with Adam? Couldn't I, by doing that, be dooming Mankind to be cast out from the Garden of Eden? *shakes her head and grins* In which case, it's not Adam who needs to die, but Eve. I could try to find the serpent and kill him, but I have a feeling he'd be immortal and kick my butt.
*grins* If there are no other races out there than Man, then it doesn't matter if I kill the whole race. The cosmos will continue ticking right along as normal. *shrugs and smiles* Without a major threat of some kind existing that needs to be countered, I don't see where it would make a whit of difference if the race was snuffed.
As far as the race not being as bad as I think...*shakes her head and sighs* ....I'm afraid that you have much more faith in us, Brad, than I do. I know that there are a few good people out there who are trying to make the world better, but they do not hold the power to do so. They are small and quiet and easily thwarted by those who hold nothing more in their hearts than greed. People, as a whole, are complacent. They will follow the loudest voice and the easiest path, no matter that that path is only leading to the slow destruction of everyone and everything. They value the wrong things.
Let me give you an example (though it is a minor one): Where I live, we are in the midst of an extreme drought. We only have about a month's worth of water left in the city before we will have to start shipping it in. Now, the city has put mandatory water restrictions in place to conserve what we have. And yet, I have seen and talked to people who still insist on watering their lawn, regardless of the restriction. Reasons being given include things like "I spent $1000 dollars on this and I'm not going to let my new sod die" or "It rained yesterday for about an hour. We should be fine, now." You idiot! You're not going to have water to drink in about 30 days and you're concerned about your grass? And, you think that an hours worth of rain is going to undo four years worth of drought? It's not like the news hasn't been showing the dried up mudholes that used to be our resevoirs each night, trying to pound home exactly how bad off we are. This is the kind of mentality that I'm talking about. People don't have their priorites straight and never will as long as they value things above the necessities of life. Quite honestly, I don't need to find a way to go back and destroy Mankind because we're doing it to ourselves right now.
*grins* Oh, I knew that I didn't have to worry about you or Brad or any of the other regs/admins/mods here on the board, Haru. It's just that some people are so sensitive about religion that I feel like I have to drive home the point that it's just a discussion for those who lurk. They may never log in and write anything until they feel their viewpoint is being challenged and then come in swinging.
Ah, see, I figured it was implied that I would go through with it when I started talking about whether God would stop me.
However, I can't honestly say whether I would or not. After all, killing a man is quite different from squishing an amoeba. Plus, poor Adam was an innocent bugger until he made the mistake of listening to Eve. One thing that I considered was finding Eve (if Adam existed, she had to too otherwise the rest of the race never would've followed) and taking her forward in time with me to show her what becomes of Mankind. However, by doing that, wouldn't I be doing exactly the same thing that eating the Apple of Knowledge did? Giving her knowledge of all the things God wanted to prevent? And would she not share this with Adam? Couldn't I, by doing that, be dooming Mankind to be cast out from the Garden of Eden? *shakes her head and grins* In which case, it's not Adam who needs to die, but Eve. I could try to find the serpent and kill him, but I have a feeling he'd be immortal and kick my butt.*grins* If there are no other races out there than Man, then it doesn't matter if I kill the whole race. The cosmos will continue ticking right along as normal. *shrugs and smiles* Without a major threat of some kind existing that needs to be countered, I don't see where it would make a whit of difference if the race was snuffed.
As far as the race not being as bad as I think...*shakes her head and sighs* ....I'm afraid that you have much more faith in us, Brad, than I do. I know that there are a few good people out there who are trying to make the world better, but they do not hold the power to do so. They are small and quiet and easily thwarted by those who hold nothing more in their hearts than greed. People, as a whole, are complacent. They will follow the loudest voice and the easiest path, no matter that that path is only leading to the slow destruction of everyone and everything. They value the wrong things.
Let me give you an example (though it is a minor one): Where I live, we are in the midst of an extreme drought. We only have about a month's worth of water left in the city before we will have to start shipping it in. Now, the city has put mandatory water restrictions in place to conserve what we have. And yet, I have seen and talked to people who still insist on watering their lawn, regardless of the restriction. Reasons being given include things like "I spent $1000 dollars on this and I'm not going to let my new sod die" or "It rained yesterday for about an hour. We should be fine, now." You idiot! You're not going to have water to drink in about 30 days and you're concerned about your grass? And, you think that an hours worth of rain is going to undo four years worth of drought? It's not like the news hasn't been showing the dried up mudholes that used to be our resevoirs each night, trying to pound home exactly how bad off we are. This is the kind of mentality that I'm talking about. People don't have their priorites straight and never will as long as they value things above the necessities of life. Quite honestly, I don't need to find a way to go back and destroy Mankind because we're doing it to ourselves right now.
Time & History - by Haruchai on 14:25 18 Aug 2002
Brad, you asked: "in comparison to what?"
To me, the answer is simple: in comparison to our own moral compass that Man has set for himself. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but most people know it is /wrong/ to kill, /wrong/ to rape.... Now, you may wonder, where did we get that moral compass? I think it is hardwired into us. Even at the very beginnings of recorded history, there were punishments for wrong-doings and such. Do you think we just thought these things up from thin air? I don't. I think, that even at his basest level, Man knows that what he does is wrong. I happen to also agree with Ari, in that the majority of Man is complacent, and simply does not care. Except for himself/herself. *shrugs* I think, and I may be wrong, that Ari is trying to say that that hardwired, moral compass, is sliding....
Anyways, getting back to the original question... what if you could only go back in time a finite amount? In other words, if you went back, or tried to go back, before you were born, you would cease to be. If that were the case, what would you change?
(I still can't get over the fact that Ari would destroy courderoy! Agh! The humanity! *cowers under his protective blanket of fear*).
Haru
Brad, you asked: "in comparison to what?"
To me, the answer is simple: in comparison to our own moral compass that Man has set for himself. Sure, there are exceptions to every rule, but most people know it is /wrong/ to kill, /wrong/ to rape.... Now, you may wonder, where did we get that moral compass? I think it is hardwired into us. Even at the very beginnings of recorded history, there were punishments for wrong-doings and such. Do you think we just thought these things up from thin air? I don't. I think, that even at his basest level, Man knows that what he does is wrong. I happen to also agree with Ari, in that the majority of Man is complacent, and simply does not care. Except for himself/herself. *shrugs* I think, and I may be wrong, that Ari is trying to say that that hardwired, moral compass, is sliding....
Anyways, getting back to the original question... what if you could only go back in time a finite amount? In other words, if you went back, or tried to go back, before you were born, you would cease to be. If that were the case, what would you change?
(I still can't get over the fact that Ari would destroy courderoy! Agh! The humanity! *cowers under his protective blanket of fear*).
Haru
Time & History - by Kainja on 01:08 24 Aug 2002
Personally, I think I'd be afraid to change history. I can see me doing something that seemed like such a wonderful thing but in the end it would turn out bad. Like I would save a child who suffered horribly but that child would become another Hitler or something.
I can see how a parent might go back in time to save their child though, or a husband his wife, etc.
Personally, I think I'd be afraid to change history. I can see me doing something that seemed like such a wonderful thing but in the end it would turn out bad. Like I would save a child who suffered horribly but that child would become another Hitler or something.
I can see how a parent might go back in time to save their child though, or a husband his wife, etc.