Offensive? - by Arislyn on 19:51 31 Jul 2004
This is kind of a random topic, here. You see, I was lurking over at some of the MMORPG boards and came across a thread where one person was complaining about how the game company changed their character's name because other players found it offensive.
In the course of that thread, someone brought up the fact that certain words are more/less offensive in other countries and used "wanker" as an example.
Now, that got me to wondering....Is wanker considered to be very offensive in Europe? I use it quite a bit but, to me, it's only mildly more offensive than calling someone a "jerk".
This is kind of a random topic, here. You see, I was lurking over at some of the MMORPG boards and came across a thread where one person was complaining about how the game company changed their character's name because other players found it offensive.
In the course of that thread, someone brought up the fact that certain words are more/less offensive in other countries and used "wanker" as an example.
Now, that got me to wondering....Is wanker considered to be very offensive in Europe? I use it quite a bit but, to me, it's only mildly more offensive than calling someone a "jerk".
Offensive? - by maitaman on 21:37 31 Jul 2004
It's strange the different things that offend different people. I have a very devout Catholic friend. He can tell a Catholic joke, and it's funny. I tell one, and he's insulted. A close black friend in the band can use certain terms when talking with other blacks, but gets ready to fight if anyone else uses the words - even if they're only repeating something they heard. An Oriental ladyfriend wouldn't speak to me for a week because of some word I used (not even in reference to races or places!) - and I still don't have a clue as to what it was.
We're all brainwashed in one way or another. You can call me anything you like, and I won't take anymore offense than you will when I "return fire". Probably less, because doing so means I'm acting inside a stereotype. Acting inside a stereotype reinforces it to any observers.
On another forum (Writer's-bbs) "political correctness" taken to an extreme was discussed when a professor decided writers shouldn't use dialect in stories because it might offend someone, who will see it as a denigration. I stated I was sure, should she hit her thumb with a hammer, she would say, "Dear me! I must contrive to be more careful in future!"
That there's about hip deep believeable, now ain't it, y'all?
It's strange the different things that offend different people. I have a very devout Catholic friend. He can tell a Catholic joke, and it's funny. I tell one, and he's insulted. A close black friend in the band can use certain terms when talking with other blacks, but gets ready to fight if anyone else uses the words - even if they're only repeating something they heard. An Oriental ladyfriend wouldn't speak to me for a week because of some word I used (not even in reference to races or places!) - and I still don't have a clue as to what it was.
We're all brainwashed in one way or another. You can call me anything you like, and I won't take anymore offense than you will when I "return fire". Probably less, because doing so means I'm acting inside a stereotype. Acting inside a stereotype reinforces it to any observers.
On another forum (Writer's-bbs) "political correctness" taken to an extreme was discussed when a professor decided writers shouldn't use dialect in stories because it might offend someone, who will see it as a denigration. I stated I was sure, should she hit her thumb with a hammer, she would say, "Dear me! I must contrive to be more careful in future!"
That there's about hip deep believeable, now ain't it, y'all?
Offensive? - by Arislyn on 22:10 31 Jul 2004
I've seen that same situation time and again where one person can use a word and it's okay but if someone else uses it....woooo, boy! It's brawling time.
Like you, I disagree with the idea that one shouldn't use dialects in writing. No one I know speaks proper English (including myself), so how believable is it for someone in a story to do so? You lose the color and life of the character if you bleach him/her out to the point where nobody could possibly be offended. Frankly, that's just not fun to read....and it's a lot of hard work to write. When I'm writing, I don't want to have to be worrying about individual words and how people may misconstrue what I'm saying. I just want to write.
It is interesting, though, to see what other people find offensive.
You know what really floors me? The fact that some of the older books have been banned in various libraries because they depict certain races in an unflattering light, Uncle Tom's Cabin or Tom Sawyer, for example. Well, these books were written during a time when racism was rampant and you can't expect them to be politically correct. However, you can't just deny what once was simply because you don't like it, either. Why not read the books and use them as an example of how things have progressed and changed? They are part of history, after all.
I've seen that same situation time and again where one person can use a word and it's okay but if someone else uses it....woooo, boy! It's brawling time.
Like you, I disagree with the idea that one shouldn't use dialects in writing. No one I know speaks proper English (including myself), so how believable is it for someone in a story to do so? You lose the color and life of the character if you bleach him/her out to the point where nobody could possibly be offended. Frankly, that's just not fun to read....and it's a lot of hard work to write. When I'm writing, I don't want to have to be worrying about individual words and how people may misconstrue what I'm saying. I just want to write.
It is interesting, though, to see what other people find offensive.
You know what really floors me? The fact that some of the older books have been banned in various libraries because they depict certain races in an unflattering light, Uncle Tom's Cabin or Tom Sawyer, for example. Well, these books were written during a time when racism was rampant and you can't expect them to be politically correct. However, you can't just deny what once was simply because you don't like it, either. Why not read the books and use them as an example of how things have progressed and changed? They are part of history, after all.
Offensive? - by Brad on 12:26 01 Aug 2004
I think a lot of PC was about control. If you make people feel insecure and self-conscious about what they say or write you are helping to either control or silence them. It also made _how_ something was said more important than _what_ people were saying. In essence it said: "conform to our communication mode or we will censor you or shout you down."
I think a lot of PC was about control. If you make people feel insecure and self-conscious about what they say or write you are helping to either control or silence them. It also made _how_ something was said more important than _what_ people were saying. In essence it said: "conform to our communication mode or we will censor you or shout you down."
Offensive? - by holsfisher on 04:33 03 Aug 2004
Hhhmmmmm..... How offensive wanker is does kind of depend on the age group, and the intent in Britain. Older people don't like it and find it offensive, younger people aren't so bothered. But its ALWAYS a much stronger term than jerk - more akin to b*stard or something like that.
I hate the obsession with being pc. Whilst it is easy to apreciate that some words are offensive, the selectiveness about what is offensive and when really annoys me, and I also hate the way that some books etc are avoided.
A good example of politically correctness going mad is the recent British cartoon version of Enid Blytons Noddy. In the new version, many characters have been taken out, or their names changed becuase 1950s descriptions are now deemed inappropriate. The worst change is that in the original stories, Noddy would go to Big Ears house, and stay with him, sleeping in the same bed, but in the new cartoon Big Ears has a spare bed, in case parents are offended by the possible homosexual interpretation of the shared bed. ITS A CARTOON FOR FIVE YEAR OLDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, recent copies of Blytons "The far away tree" books have changed one of the girls names. Fanny is now called Lizzy or something like that, becuase the name Fanny may offend people. I thnk the world is going nuts.
| Quote |
| Now, that got me to wondering....Is wanker considered to be very offensive in Europe? I use it quite a bit but, to me, it's only mildly more offensive than calling someone a "jerk". |
Hhhmmmmm..... How offensive wanker is does kind of depend on the age group, and the intent in Britain. Older people don't like it and find it offensive, younger people aren't so bothered. But its ALWAYS a much stronger term than jerk - more akin to b*stard or something like that.
I hate the obsession with being pc. Whilst it is easy to apreciate that some words are offensive, the selectiveness about what is offensive and when really annoys me, and I also hate the way that some books etc are avoided.
A good example of politically correctness going mad is the recent British cartoon version of Enid Blytons Noddy. In the new version, many characters have been taken out, or their names changed becuase 1950s descriptions are now deemed inappropriate. The worst change is that in the original stories, Noddy would go to Big Ears house, and stay with him, sleeping in the same bed, but in the new cartoon Big Ears has a spare bed, in case parents are offended by the possible homosexual interpretation of the shared bed. ITS A CARTOON FOR FIVE YEAR OLDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also, recent copies of Blytons "The far away tree" books have changed one of the girls names. Fanny is now called Lizzy or something like that, becuase the name Fanny may offend people. I thnk the world is going nuts.
Offensive? - by Arislyn on 07:52 03 Aug 2004
Ah! Thanks, hols. Now, if someone flies off the handle when I use "wanker", I'll understand why. Hehe! Actually, I don't find b*stard to be all that offensive, either. Of course, that could be because everytime I hear it, in the back of my head I can hear Rik from The Young Ones calling Vivian one. And how can you possibly take anything Rik says seriously?
You're kidding about that cartoon? That's just silly.
Oh! That reminds me...Shel Silverstein's Where the Sidewalk Ends was challenged:
I loved that book! In fact, I still have it. It just kills me that someone actually took "Dreadful" so seriously. Obviously, someone never read Swift's proposal....
Hehe! To this day, I can still recite "Sarah Silvia Cynthia Stout would not take the garbage out.." almost from memory.
Ah! Thanks, hols. Now, if someone flies off the handle when I use "wanker", I'll understand why. Hehe! Actually, I don't find b*stard to be all that offensive, either. Of course, that could be because everytime I hear it, in the back of my head I can hear Rik from The Young Ones calling Vivian one. And how can you possibly take anything Rik says seriously?
You're kidding about that cartoon? That's just silly.
Oh! That reminds me...Shel Silverstein's Where the Sidewalk Ends was challenged:
| Quote |
| Where the Sidewalk Ends. Shel Silverstein. Harper. Challenged at the West Allis-West Milwaukee, Wis. school libraries (1986) because the book "suggests drug use, the occult, suicide, death, violence, disrespect for truth, disrespect for legitimate authority, rebellion against parents." Challenged at the Central Columbia School District in Bloomsburg, Pa. (1993) because a poem titled "Dreadful" talks about how "someone ate the baby." On the other hand, this book does present the negative consequences of not taking the garbage out. |
I loved that book! In fact, I still have it. It just kills me that someone actually took "Dreadful" so seriously. Obviously, someone never read Swift's proposal....
Hehe! To this day, I can still recite "Sarah Silvia Cynthia Stout would not take the garbage out.." almost from memory.
Offensive? - by Brad on 07:59 03 Aug 2004
hols, it's scary to hear that PC is in Britain too. I thought it was a mainly American thing.
I equate it with brain washing and thought control. The part that I hate the most is when opposing views cannot even be discussed and debated. There are many people that disagree with me, and I even find their views dangerous, but I think it important to drag it all out into the light of day and discuss it in a reasonable manner and let the public decide. I don't think the PC folks trust the public or want them to decide on their own.
John Hancock was right in saying that he may not agree with someone but he will defend to the death their right to say it. That is about as un-PC as can be.
In many ways PC reminds me of the McCarthy era. I hope it is receeding.
hols, it's scary to hear that PC is in Britain too. I thought it was a mainly American thing.
I equate it with brain washing and thought control. The part that I hate the most is when opposing views cannot even be discussed and debated. There are many people that disagree with me, and I even find their views dangerous, but I think it important to drag it all out into the light of day and discuss it in a reasonable manner and let the public decide. I don't think the PC folks trust the public or want them to decide on their own.
John Hancock was right in saying that he may not agree with someone but he will defend to the death their right to say it. That is about as un-PC as can be.
In many ways PC reminds me of the McCarthy era. I hope it is receeding.
Offensive? - by Arislyn on 14:10 03 Aug 2004
I found this article about free speech/hate speech and the law rather interesting.
Though we're not talking specifically about hate speech, here, I think there is some crossover. It's not PC to express strong, negative feelings towards another person/group based on religion, gender, etc. However, it is our basic right to hold those opinions, whether they be good or bad, and express them as long as we are not physically hurting someone or denying them their rights.
While I am a firm believer in being polite and openly dislike overtly rude people, I am also a firm believer in the right of others to simply be unlikable (in my opinion). Just hurting my feelings is no reason to shut someone up completely. (Heh. I'll just ignore them...)
I found this article about free speech/hate speech and the law rather interesting.
Though we're not talking specifically about hate speech, here, I think there is some crossover. It's not PC to express strong, negative feelings towards another person/group based on religion, gender, etc. However, it is our basic right to hold those opinions, whether they be good or bad, and express them as long as we are not physically hurting someone or denying them their rights.
While I am a firm believer in being polite and openly dislike overtly rude people, I am also a firm believer in the right of others to simply be unlikable (in my opinion). Just hurting my feelings is no reason to shut someone up completely. (Heh. I'll just ignore them...)
Offensive? - by NoonChild on 07:10 03 Sep 2004
My mother is a social worker here in the UK, and because its a government organisation that has to be sensitive to every persons needs, the whole system has gone PC mad. To the extent that my mum asked a colleague if she would like a drink, her colleague said "A black coffee please....oh I shouldn't say that, I mean a coffee without milk please". Stupid enough as it is, but the ethnicity of this colleague...Black! Black coffee has no negative suggestions,(ITS COFFEE) the black woman had no problem with it, but she felt she had to correct it to coffee without milk.
However none of the managers seem as concerned to make sure the coffee is FairTrade - surely helping truely oppressed people is more important than stopping people using the adjective Black.
My mother is a social worker here in the UK, and because its a government organisation that has to be sensitive to every persons needs, the whole system has gone PC mad. To the extent that my mum asked a colleague if she would like a drink, her colleague said "A black coffee please....oh I shouldn't say that, I mean a coffee without milk please". Stupid enough as it is, but the ethnicity of this colleague...Black! Black coffee has no negative suggestions,(ITS COFFEE) the black woman had no problem with it, but she felt she had to correct it to coffee without milk.
However none of the managers seem as concerned to make sure the coffee is FairTrade - surely helping truely oppressed people is more important than stopping people using the adjective Black.
Offensive? - by Brad on 17:23 04 Sep 2004
<rant>
See this is what gets me. PC is in many ways just to make us feel like we are doing something when we actually are not doing something. And so it diverts our attention from Stuff That Really Matters. (Plus the whole control-thing is mixed in there too.) We still want our cheap consumer goods made by slave labor in some undeveloped country and we are not willing to pay FairTrade price because we might have to pay more for our cup of joe. I'm just as guilty as everyone else and I'm talking in general terms here.
Russell Means, the 1960's American Indian activist, said something like, "I don't care what you call us, just give us back our land or pay us for it."
</rant>
| Quote |
| However none of the managers seem as concerned to make sure the coffee is FairTrade - surely helping truely oppressed people is more important than stopping people using the adjective Black. |
<rant>
See this is what gets me. PC is in many ways just to make us feel like we are doing something when we actually are not doing something. And so it diverts our attention from Stuff That Really Matters. (Plus the whole control-thing is mixed in there too.) We still want our cheap consumer goods made by slave labor in some undeveloped country and we are not willing to pay FairTrade price because we might have to pay more for our cup of joe. I'm just as guilty as everyone else and I'm talking in general terms here.
Russell Means, the 1960's American Indian activist, said something like, "I don't care what you call us, just give us back our land or pay us for it."
</rant>